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Communicating Agent Taxonomy Discussion

To: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.religion.angels,alt.pagan.magick,alt.magick,alt.paranet.metaphysics,talk.religion.newage
From: nagasiva 
Subject: Communicating Agent Taxonomy Discussion
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 09:58:51 GMT

here we go again! ;>

50030724 viii


A. 'EXTERNAL' (not me)

1.  Supersensible Intelligences ---

	presumed separate/external, beyond ordinary sensory perception
	anything not obvious to sensory perception that could
	communicate from beyond the receiver. 

	  e.g. other-dimensional beings, intelligent dwellers 
	  in a spiritual plane, sub-atomic quantum entities, etc.

	COMMENT: strict materialists may deny the reality 
		of this class. other obvious qualifiers 
		here regardless of status would be ghosts, 
		demons, spirits, angels, and gods. any 
		co-resident or possessory intelligences 
		such as an invoked or possessing spirit 
		would be covered by class B:1 below.

2.   Physical Complex Nervious Systems ---

	presumed separate/external, perceivable sentient beings
	ordinarily considered sentient: conscious and aware; 
	presumed somehow capable of constructing a communication 
	and delivering it through its chosen medium.

	  e.g. humans, chimpanzees, dolphins, undiscovered
          life forms with these qualities, etc.

	COMMENT: the reality of this class is usually not
		denied, but its ability to construct some
		kind of message for communicating may be
		refuted or presumed non-extant.

3.   Physical Simple Nervous Systems ---

	presumed separate/external, 
	perceivable nonsentient living beings
	ordinarily considered nonsentient: unconscious or unaware. 

	   e.g. mobile and lowly such as insects or slugs; 
           or comparably static like trees or fungi.

	COMMENT: the reality of this class is usually not
		a topic of debate except as it may qualify
		in an ability to construct communication.
                a fictional example that I can remember
		appears in some horror films where beings
		like insects develop sentience (as in
		groups of cockroaches or nests of ants).


4. Physical Objects/Phenomena

	presumed separate/external, perceivable nonsentient objects
	mobile objects used as vehicles 
	or somehow propelled by other means.

	  e.g. things as diverse as ships and clouds and electrons, 
	  or comparably static objects like books and mountains.

	COMMENT: again, the reality of these objects is usually
		presupposed, but their ability to have interior
		experiences and to generate communication is
		typically disputed.



1. Physical Body Portions/Symbiotes/Parasites

	presumed PARTIAL/INTERNAL, specially-recognized communication

	portions of the receiver as well as many agents not 
	ordinarily perceivable without specialized equipment 
	or during special procedures as during an operation, 
	x-ray, etc.

	  e.g. one's arm (as in 'muscle-testing'), an 
	  internal organ such as a kidney, or separable 
	  biological organisms that reside internal to 
	  the receiver's body such as intestinal flora, 
          a tick lodged subcutaneously, or a tape worm.
          also ordinarily supersensible beings like an
	  invading possessory spirit would quality here.

	COMMENT: the reality of this class is often, 
		but not always presupposed, depending
		upon their character (the supersensible
		may or may not be, for example). their 
		ability to have separate interior 
		experiences and to generate 
		communication may be disputed 
		based on the lack of a complex 
		or separate nervous system (whether
		due to their partial or unevolved nature
		or because they transcend physicality).


2. Imaginary Beings/Objects

	presumed INHERENT/INTERNAL, selectively-perceivable figments

	beings and objects fabricated by some portion of the
	mind of the individual with whom it communicates.
	  e.g. multiple-personality disorder; or concepts of
	  self-deception such as delusions or imaginary beings
	  (such as how 'imaginary playmates', perhaps all of 
	  category 1, are seen by strict materialists). 

        COMMENT: the reality of this class is often disputed,
                especially in an ontological sense; inasmuch as
                the aspect of the individual is capable of acting
                independently, so is there allowance made for the
                facet of the receiver to construct communications
                that may appear to the receiver ONLY to be somehow
                separate from hir self and consciousness.


I tried to integrate what we have both already discussed,
moved away from the 'real/unreal' dichotomy somewhat (leaving
that for the cosmological intrusion), and attempted to settle
into a consensual and inclusive spectrum of the universe. 

I'm also responding to your suggested taxonomy below.

"angelicusrex" :
# 1. Primary Specially Sensed Communication Agent: (That which founded and
# supports the physical and/or other types of universes i.e. spiritual,
# transdimensional, unseen, unknown; and which was not created, not formed
# from any "thing" seen or unseen, and yet is intelligent, having existence
# within, through and around all other things). {God, the Source, The Prime
# Mover, The Infinite Mind, the One, The All, What Is, Was And Will Be, etc}.

cosmological inasmuch as relation to the real is specified.
we're talking supersensible regardless of what is there.

# 2. Specially Sensed or normally immaterial real agents: (noncorporeal
# entities existing outside the confines of the mind and body of sentient
# physical beings). {Gods, Archangels, Angels, Seraphim, Cherubim, Elohim,
# archons, aeons, devas, genii, devils, demons, sprites, elves, fairies,
# gnomes, animal totems, imaginary playmates, interdimensional beings etc.).

I don't see much difference between your 1 and 2 here, 
ultimately, excepting what is agreed in terms of cosmology. 
I hope that I'm not being arbitrary here.

# 3. Sensible agents: (Living beings).
#     A. Mobile sensible agents: (Living organisms which move through time and
# space). {Higher and Lower Animals: birds, reptiles, mammals, plankton,
# bacterium, parasites, space aliens, etc.).

we differentiate here by virtue of "Higher/Lower" in a conventional
manner that is useful. I've continued to use this distinction above.

#      B. Apparently immobile sensible agents: (Living organisms which are
# rooted to one spot, relative to our awareness). {Trees, bushes, plants of
# various sorts)

I conjoined "Lower Animals" with plants and other organisms 
into a mass that is typically not presumed to be able to
speak to us in any perceivable way (i.e. the criteria for
presumption is 'discernably regular communication').

#      C. Special sensible mobile agents: (Nonliving special entities that
# function and thrive through random contact with/and use of living
# organisms).{Viruses or prions, protoplasm, ectoplasm, or other
# manifestations which are produced as "matter" from living organisms or which
# subsist or rely on same).

some of these (C.) would not ordinarily be sensible with the eye.
may I presume this is what you mean by 'special'? same as the 
first couple of categories. special techniques or technology for
gaining access to sensing them (as appearance or specially-
developed attunement, etc.) seems to be necessary. I like that
distinction greatly and am not sure if I sufficiently paid
attention to methods of sensory-perception (e.g. technology). 

#       D. Sensible nonmobile, nonliving, tissues: (Organs such as the liver
# or heart, etc. used to effect readings by others like shamans or pirests,
# etc. Human bones, chicken bones, sheep or other entrails, teeth, bile,
# blood, mucous, feathers, scutes or scales, skins, hair, fingernails, etc.
# Also includes tea leaves, sticks, cast stones, etc.).

this is a lovely category and I tried to cover it by 
establishing class-set A./B. and in particular B:1 above. 
see if I did it justice.

# 4. Mass/Energy sensible agents: (Nonliving, non protoplasmic, mobile waves
# and energetically produced or generated particles. Photons, Electrons,
# Atoms, Molecules, radioactive waves, radio or television waves, plasma
# energy, suns, stars, moons, plaentoids, asteroids, comets, meteors, planets,
# dark matter, metals, liquids, gases,  rocks, crystals, etc.)
# 5. Constructed/Manufactured sensible agents: ( Devices manufactured by
# sentient beings for communications with the otherwise or usually non-sensed
# world, subconscious or unconscious mind) {Magic 8 Balls, tarot cards,
# astrology charts, I Ching coins, Televisions, talking cars, toasters,
# computers, boats, or any type of machinery both mechanical and/or electronic
# in nature}.

--------------------------- your 'real' stops here

I tried to put all the 'ordinarily noncommunicating objects'
together based on conventional notions of what can talk or
generate conversation. from there cosmology distinguishes,
based on what can and cannot communicate.

# 6. Mentally created  unreal agents (mental or visual illusions created by
# the minds of sentient physical beings). {Including but not limited to:
# Fictional constructs, characters from books, movies, plays, dreams, visions,
# drug induced hallucinations, daydreams or play).

I'm inclined to agree that 'illusions' and 'real/unreal' 
distinctions will not be useful for inclusivity. I think
to be inclusive discerning is valuable only WHERE 
they are and how they relate to the receiver of the 
communication (thus my new taxonomy focusses on these
types of differences and takes them into account).

# David St. Albans 2003, all rights reserved. Please leave this copyright
# notice on the original list, attached to any other revisions or deletions,
# etc. Thank you.

feel free to do what you like with my text here. my aim is to
brainstorm and care little for constraint beyond proper
attribution in quotation and republishing.


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