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For the Rekkid

To: alt.magick
From: catherine yronwode 
Subject: Re: For the Rekkid
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 20:54:34 GMT

David Cantu wrote:
> "catherine yronwode"  wrote
> > hy wrote:
> > >
> > > David Cantu wrote:
> > > >
> > > > "hy"  wrote :
> > > >
> > > > > David Cantu wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The pseudo-being claiming angelic descent
> >
> > Care to explain who "the pseudo-being claiming angelic descent" is 
> > and how you met [it]?
> This one was met in Hypnogogia, and as such, hasn't established 
> itself as a real being separate from my mind.
> The name it gave, I cannot repeat, but a certain identity with my 
> own names, given and magically chosen, established this being as my 
> HGA.  Following its instructions led to a meeting with a more global 
> being identifying itself with Michael.  This was all around the Fall 
> Equinox of '97.

 Thanks. I understand the arameters better now. 

> > > > > > gave me the date of April 17 as one that would prove
> > > > > > the contact.
> >
> > The contact with who? You? Why must the contact be "proved"? Is it 
> > in doubt?
> The authenticity of subjective experience is always in doubt, 
> especially when that authenticity is linked to claims about the real 
> world we live in. Becoming a believer in one's own fantasies is 
> always a danger for magicians.

Well said. 'Nuff said. 

> Some form of objective proof is necessary if one seeks to objectify 
> the experience.  While I do not really seek such objectification 
> myself, I am curious as to whether it will occur separate from my 
> actions.  I don't think of myself as doer here, only receiver, and I 
> am curious as to the nature of the source of the reception.

 I see. Pity the ball was started rolling with such a heavy predictive
impact -- had it been smaller and simpler in scope uyou might have been
able to test it sequentially as it worked its way up the scale of

> > > > > > A year later I interpreted that date as
> > > > > > having personal connection to my existence,
> >
> > As i read this. it seemds like the first April 17th after you met 
> > the "pseudo-being," nohing happened that "proved the contact" or 
> > "had personal connection to your existence" so you gave it another 
> > year, which will be up on Wednesday. Is this accurate?
> No, the date of April 17th had great significance exactly 1 year 
> after the experience in '97 and helped me to make decisions about my 
> Father's impending death.  In other words, the date became a trigger 
> for events a year later and thus contained subjective meaning 
> separate from the numbers or even the date given.  The significant 
> event did Not occur on April 17th but did involve the date of April 
> 17th in a very meaningful way that allowed me to make decisions I 
> would have avoided otherwise.  This was all the proof I needed at a 
> subjective level, though it wasn't proof at all, just extra
> information that helped me.  

Are you saying that the April 17th date was predicted for world-wide
events, and yiou doubted but on the next April 17th, something of
intense subjective-personal import occured? 

If so, see again my account below of the San Francisco psychic who
unwittingly predeicted her own death. I did not mention this to make fun
of the woman nor to mock psychic predicitions -- for HER, both
subjectively and objectively, the date in question WOULD be one with
"great loss of life in San Francisco" -- her own life. 

> My own curiosity in this matter leads me to
> wonder if a more objective proof involving the date will occur, I 
> don't know that it will.  You see, in bringing information from one 
> level of consciousness to another it it easy to loose information, 
> and while I was able to bring the significance of the date from one 
> state to the other, I missed the year associated with the date and 
> any information associated with what the date would actually mean.

So your hypnogogic HGA pointe out that April 17th of some year was
somehow more important than the other 364 days?

Dis that date have any prior significance to you? 

> This left me open to "look" for meaning in my own way, which again 
> leads to the dangers of forming beliefs around experiences.  I just 
> curiously wait to see if anything further happens.  I posted this 
> here, just to have a record of it before the fact, not to claim 
> anything Would happen.

Very good. 

> > > > > > and so as subjective proof for me.
> >
> > David, why post here about your hope for *subjective* proof of 
> > anything? You don't need us to reify that.
> No, I explained above.  It is just to have a record on line so that 
> if something does occur it can be put on the table for discussion.  

> Personally, I hope nothing happens.  I am very comfortable, why 
> would I want things to change?
> The subjective aspect is past, I am only wondering about 
> possibilities for a more objective assessment.


> > > > > > Since April 17 is coming I
> > > > > > though I had better put the date on record, just in
> > > > > > case something of objective interest occurs on Wednesday.
> >
> > Well, i'll let you know if anything that i can relate to comes up.
> Honestly, it would have to be jaw dropping in its implications for 
> humanity as a whole.  I do doubt that this will occur; but, IF IT IS 
> REAL, it would be out of my hands to control, I become a mere 
> observer.

 As are we all. 

> > > > > > The event would have to be somewhat special to actually
> > > > > > qualify.
> >
> > That's what i hate about mystery prognostications like this -- one 
> > is left trying to match daily life with an unspecified target.
> That's why it would have to almost stop Humanity in its tracks to 
> qualify in my mind as related.


> > The most remarkable of my own date-predicted notices of this type 
> > (in my 50-some years of watching for this stuff) took place in 
> > 1967/68: Due to a series of dreams in which i was told by various 
> > people that i was "looking for John Lennon," i decided to do just 
> > that (with no real reason, not being a Beatle fan myself) and that 
> > led to a meditation in a jail cell in Spokane, Washington (where i 
> > was incarcerated for growing marijuana) that produced the self-
> > generated statement that i would spend exactly one year and one 
> > day in an attempt to meet John Lennon -- and bingo, i met him 
> > exactly on the called-for date, a year and a day later, in London, 
> > England.
> But this has control elements that are in your hands.  

Not as many as you may think: 

One: I told people what i was going to do and i asked for contributions
to buy my airfare. People gave me money. 

Two: I went to England a month before the date. I had no place to stay,
but soon was happily ensconced in a flat in Ladbroke Grove, hob-nobbing
with Druids and John Michell and having a great time. 

Three: I determined to only "try" to meet John Lennon 3 times (based on
the Bellman's statement in "The Hunting of the Snark" by Lewis Carroll,
"what i tell you three times is true") and so three times i went to the
Apple offices and announced that i was there to see John Lennon:

   1) The first time i went there, i was ushered in back, given tea,
then led up to the roof where Ken Kesey and a band of Hell's Angels were
smoking pot; i got stoned, was taken to see various roadies and
managers, was given free record albums, and was told to return. 

   2) The second time i was ushered in back, given tea, smoked pot, and
was told that i could meet George Harrison, as he was there. I declined. 

   3) The third time i was ushered in back, sexually propositioned by
Mal Evans (the Beatles' "road manager," although they no longer toured),
and was told that i could meet Paul McCartney, as he was there. I
declined both offers.

After that, i no longer asked to meet John Lennon. The meeting, on the
"appointed" date, took place by sheer "coincidence" at the Albert Hall,
on stage, at an event called "The Alchemical Wedding. I was seated next
to John Lennon and Yoko Ono, as it turned out, completely by
happenstance; they had not even been sceheduled to be there (she was
supposed to have been sending a film to show, rather) and my presence on
stage was through a rather bizarre chain of coincidences involving a
musician whom i barely knew: 

The event, organized by the Arts Lab, celebrated heterosexual
male-female pairings and it involved many bands, most of them electric.
Each musician was supposed to bring a grilfriend or wife (all musicians
were male and all were presumed to be heterosexual!). The seating on
stage called for each (male) musician to alternate with a female "muse."
A man i had only met three or four times, who happened to be an American
from Philadelphia, and was in London to escape the draft for the Viet
Nam war, had no girlfriend, so he invited me to be his "muse" and sit
next to him on stage -- and, as it turnd out, that meant that i was
seated next to John Lennon and Yoko Ono on the stage. 

I did not know this (i am quite visually impaired and for reasons of
vanity i was not wearing my glasses). However, the Hells Angels
aforementioned started a riot at the Albert Hall when one of the women
stripped off her clothes -- and the management turned out the lights and
cut the power to the stage. The Third Ear Band (to one of whose members
i was temporarily playing the "muse") was the only acoiustic band, so
they went on to play in the dark for 45 minutes while arrests were being
made and negotiations to return the lights and power proceeded. When
they came back to their seats, my friend asked if i wasn't there to meet
John Lennon -- and i said, "Yes." "Well, you're sitting right next to
him and Yoko Ono," he said. And so i was. So i said hello. 

There was more to it than that, but that accounts for the meeting
itself, and what part my choices played -- and did NOT play -- in making
it happen.  

In other words, i believe that the fulfillment of the precise date
assigned to the meeting and the terms under which it occured were HIGHLY
dis-organized from my point of view and seemed to result from a great
deal of chance. 

> This, like many such prophesies, is self fulfilling.  To qualify in 
> this case it had to involve elements that I have no control over.  I 
> was given a message and rather than believing in it I have tried to 
> sit back and watch.  I did, however, fulfill all promises that I 
> made for the information, my part is more or less done....I hope.

I understand. Note that this is what i did as well, in the example
above. I exerted only enough effort to (a) be on the required continent
at the time and (b) make three requests, all on the wrong date and all
of them denied. Everything else was chance. 

> I can't control what was given to me, or by me (that is the
> question - to or by)

 Or both. 

> > > > No, if I'm looking for anything at all, it will be something
> > > > rather big, probably linked to the Jewish religion or people.
> >
> > Pretty vague. Which Jewish people?
> My only reasons for this connection are the information about the 
> Hebrew language that the source led me to and the fact that things 
> are very Hot in the region right now.  I'm just guessing.  Sorry, I 
> don't have a lovely poem from the angels to interpret here;-)

Hmmm. Okay. 

> > Me 'n' Blazin' Tommy D?
> It would have to have potential resonance with everyone.

Okay. I was just trying to pull you leg about the phrase "the Jewish
people." I enjoy mocking that locution. 

> > The nation of Israel?
> >
> > Is YHWH coming down in a cloud?
> When a cloud on the side of the WTC seemed to show a demon it was 
> quickly dismissed as a trick of light and illusion.  

 I didn't see that. Did you?

> If  "he" did come down it would prolly be "picture-perfect-Aryan-
> pseudo-Jesus" in a saucer anyway
> ;-}
> Then we could try to blow 'im up!


> > Is YHWH gonna be paying my phone bills?
> YHVH isn't a savior God.
> hee.
> On the other hand, if all government and financial infrastructures 
> were destroyed.....

Hey, i'm astill waiting for those who collect interest to be punished. 

> > I shall approach this with an open mind. If i see anything
> > in the news on that date that seems to me to qualify as relating 
> > to the Jewish religion or the "Jewish people," i'll let you know 
> > what i think.
> >
> > What will you do if NOTHING qualifies?
> I'm more worried about something occurring than not.
> I would rather that nothing happens, so the feeling will be one of 
> relief.
> > Will you be disappointed?
> Nope.

Will you consider the window of opportunity to have passed, or will you
be waiting for the next April 17th, and the next, and the next...?

> It isn't easy to put this sort of thing out, EVEN IF IT IS REALIZED.
> For the most part, it is a "nutty" thing to do.  Me, I'm just 
> curious about the nature of our reality and not terribly concerned 
> with what others think of me personally.

 Well, i don't think it is "nutty" -- i think it is a good idea to test
the angels. 

> > Finally, David, i assume you are aware that subjectivity can play havoc
> > with a prediction. I am remended of the woman in San Francisco 
> > (sorry, i have forgotten her name) who, in early 1969, began to 
> > predict that a devastating earthquake, with tremendous loss of 
> > life,  would destroy the city exactly on the 63rd anniversary of 
> > the April 1906 San Francisco earthquake. She was a noted psychic 
> > and she got plenty of newspaper coverage for the prediction -- and 
> > then, to the general amazement of all concerned, she died of a 
> > heart attack on precisely that date!
> >
> > So watch, out David!
> No problem, but no fair launching an attack ;-)
> This life and eventual death are not really that important.
> What I/we do with them...that's another matter, that's what we 
> leave.

Well, i was trying to indicate that when dealing with predictions of
catastrophic change, sometimes a subjective disaster can be expressed
within the mind as an objective disaster. This came up in the matter of
the Vassago Prophesy as well, in my opinion. 

cat yronwode

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