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Sex Magick: OTO

To: alt.magick.sex,alt.magick.tyagi,alt.sex.wizards,alt.magick,alt.magick.moderated
From: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (Hsi Wang Mu)
Subject: Sex Magick: OTO (Was Re: REPOST: OTO Sex Magic.)
Date: 28 Jun 1995 11:15:26 -0700

49950628

Do as you please, for that is my Law.


It is in accordance with my present identification and condition of
aspiration that I shall begin to seriously question the notions
expressed regarding all types of sexual magick, including that
attributed to Aleister Crowley and those associated with the OTO, 
an Order of which I am a member but from which I retain a degree of
distance.  The recent purgation of alt.magick.sex of the various AOL
idiocies opens the forum for more serious exchange, especially as 
there are consistent participants therein.  

Consequently, here I begin critical review of some of the substance in 
alt.magick.sex arriving from the email address of one wizard@primenet.com 
(wizard) regarding 'OTO Sex Magick, by Josh Geller.'  As I am not at all
acquainted with Crowley's 'De Arte Magica', from which Mr. Geller says
he derives his (somewhat common) understandings of that sexual magick
associated with 'OTO Degrees', I shall begin asking questions of any 
who appear to represent themselves as understnading the materials 
presented by both Crowley and, through apparent reflection, Geller.

My intent is to inspire some in-depth study through philosophical dialogue
and hopefully come to some understanding of the material which will
aid me in my study of 'De Arte Magica' and other texts associated with 
sexual magick (OTO and nonOTO).


Wizard does not quote Geller but writes:

|I believe that this material was published, in a more elaborate form, in
|King's "Secret Rituals of the O.T.O.," which was published only once and
|is now difficult to obtain.

Having a copy of that tome, I perused it briefly (table of contents,
skipped the Minerval through Sixth Degree rites, scanned 'PART THREE:
The Secret Instructions of the Seventh, Eighth and Ninth Degrees' and
did not see anything which resembled 'De Arte Magica', though it does
certainly mention these degrees and their various secrets.  I'll have
to examine all of this together, it seems.  I don't get the impression
that the focus here is so much on 'sexual magick' of the sort portrayed
by Mr. Geller's synopsis, nor did my review of 'De Arte Magica' (at the
following location: http://www.uib.no/zoo/wolf/bjorn/magi/lib_0414.txt
in Bjorn's Magick Page; likely also to be found at nic.funet.fi) reveal
an immediate similarity to either of the other two works, though I can
understand that these shadow-writings of alchemical symbolism may play
off one another and point toward different emphases.

I would request that anyone who *is* familiar with these works (they
are none very long, though perhaps somewhat dense) provide synopsis
and comparison to Mr. Geller's observance as well as outline of the 
basic concepts contained within each during that comparison.  If nobody 
takes up this work I'll consider it seriously myself, though I don't 
know that I am really qualified.


|Besides the strict magical interpretation, you will also find spiritual
|interpretations of the techniques in the instructional papers.

Could you please explain how you are differentiating between 'strict
magical' and 'spiritual' interpretation?


|Also, it should be noted that the 8th degree O.T.O has been omitted in the
|previous post. 

I think it did appear there, though the X' (if such exists) did not.  That
is, the VIII, presented by Geller, constitutes autosexual magical practice,
IX heterosexual, XI homosexual (this is at least the vulgar interpretation).
*IS* there an X' association?  Is there a history beyond Mr. Geller of these
vulgar interpretations?  I've heard the same for years from various OTO
members, though I considered their exhortations crude and ridiculous in
brevity.  It is too easy to equate these esoteric concepts with strict
sexuality.


|I believe that this degree has to do with worshiping the male sex organ. 

Perhaps it merely has to do with a focus upon one's OWN sexuality, given
the accuracy of autosexual association.


|Personally, I think if AC were alive today he might have had women 
|worship the male sex organ and men worship the female sex organ.  Or 
|perhaps both should be worshiped.

In this and previous expression, could you explain what you mean here by
'worshipping' and why you think that this has anything to do with magick?
What would be the value (magical, spiritual, whatever) in worshipping a
part of the human body, sexual or no?


|The 11th degree (which, I have read in posts, has be abandoned by the
|current O.T.O) involved techniques of anal intercourse. 

Mr. Geller has elsewhere expressed his conjecture that XI has something
to do with engaging what is repugnant to oneself (apparently sexually,
though I don't remember him being explicit in this).  Thus if one is
predominantly heterosexual (as am I, for example), homosexual working
(whatever this means -- I don't claim to understand it yet) may be the
manifestation (and as I am, in the physical plane, male, this may well
include anal intercourse, though I'm unsure as yet whether the most
gross interpretation of these esoteric concepts are the most accurate).
 

|...in reading some of his diaries it is clear that he practiced the 
|11th degree with men or women.

What do you mean by 'practiced the 11th degree' and can you provide
reference to Mr. Crowley's diaries (i.e. page #s in Grant/Symonds'
_Confessions..._) which support this claim?  


|Supposedly there is no initiation for the 9th degree. 

What does 'initiation' mean in terms of these 'Degree Secrets'?  Are you
suggesting that the OTO instructs these sex magick practices at various
degrees and requires initiation into its formal structure before allowing
this instruction?  Could Frater Heidrick or some other knowledgeable OTO
member verify this?  If this is the case, does the Order interpret its
oaths of restriction to apply to secrets learned in association with these
degrees (necessitating 'bad report' for those who have attained to that
degree and who discuss these subjects in any detail in public)?  Such
a circumstance may directly affect my attitude toward future initiation.


|If somebody could tell Crowley the secret of the 9th, even if they were 
|not members of the O.T.O, he allegedly would immediately give them the 
|documents for the 9th degree and officially accept them into that degree. 

What does 'tell Crowley the secret of the 9th' mean?  Is 'the secret of
the IX degree' something which CAN be verbalized?  I realize that there
are stories of Mr. Reuss, I think, initiating Mr. Crowley due to his
supposed 'knowledge of the sexual secrets of the Templars' or whatnot,
but is there truly any substance to this?  If so, could not we set about
'verbalizing' it within these magical forums?  If so, would somebody 
assist me in purposefully publicizing these supposed 'secrets' so as to 
make unnecessary and ridiculous this lasting obscurantism? :>  Has
Mr. Geller already done the job for us? (Gods I hope that isn't all
there is to it, I'd be very disappointed.)


|That way they would be bound NOT to reveal the secret to anyone. 

This is the reason that it would affect my future with the Order, yes.


|Does anybody have any documented evidence for or against this story?

It sounds like a ruse to me, but I am very ignorant where matters of
secrecy, OTO and initiation are concerned, being somewhat revolutionary
within the Order.  I would also like to hear more information about
any of the above from OTO members, Mr. Geller and others who may have
insights into these 'sex magick practices/secrets/mysteries/etc.'.

Thank you for your time.


Free love, right now!

Hsi Wang Mu
tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com
___________________________

...the Temple of Set requires its members to act ethically and
responsibly. ...there are minimal standards which must be adhered to 
(minimal standards which indicate that specific actions are unethical 
and unacceptable, actions for which so far no one has attempted or 
succeeded in convincing the rest of us that they are ethical or 
acceptable).

...the minimal standards are common sense (honor to each other,
no mind-bending drugs except as medically required, no sacrifices or
other idiocy, etc). They're determined by the Temple as a whole, and
enforced by the Temple as a whole (with the Council of Nine being 
empowered to expel anyone, even the High Priest, should expulsion be
necessary).

Balanone@tefnut.astaroth.sacbbx.com (Balanone): alt.satanism

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